Understanding Open Carry and Gray Man in Modern Self-defense
In the world of self-defense, there are numerous strategies and principles. Recently, I stumbled upon a video by Icy Mike from ‘Hard2Hurt’, who raised a fascinating discussion about two common approaches: open carry and gray man. The first approach, open carry, revolves around openly carrying a firearm in public. As Mike suggests, some gun enthusiasts argue in favor of this strategy, often alluding to the idea that open carry acts as a deterrent to crime. However, Mike throws a spanner in the works by viewing the tactic not only as a technical error but also morally questionable. The reasons, according to him, often boil down to controlling and manipulating people. He goes so far as to call it a form of violence, as it uses the threat of potential harm to influence the behavior of others. But, the real problem with this belief, as Mike astutely points out, is that there’s no definitive way to prove whether open carry successfully deters crime. The Gray Man Strategy At the other end of the spectrum, we encounter the gray man strategy. The underlying principle here is to blend in and go unnoticed. For some, this might seem like the more intelligent approach. Interestingly though, Mike finds issues with this tactic as well, particularly for regular folks interested in self-defense. According to Mike, the gray man strategy does little in terms of self-defense for the average person. The primary goal is to be unremarkable. This translates to drawing less attention to oneself, subsequently making you a more desirable target for crime. It’s an ironic and counter-intuitive result that can’t be ignored. Finding the Right Balance So, having essentially dismissed both open carry and gray man strategies, what does Mike suggest? The answer lies not in extremes, but in balance. Mike leans towards concealed carry. The idea is to portray yourself as someone confident and capable of defending themselves, subtly influencing potential criminals to reconsider their intentions. Additionally, carrying a firearm out of sight gives you the element of surprise, something you lose entirely with open carry. Mike also makes a crucial point, reminding us of the importance of our ego in such scenarios. Not every situation requires us to be the ‘hero’. The fact that we can choose not to brandish our firearm, and still handle a potential threat, imbues concealed carrying with a tactical advantage. Drawing Conclusions In conclusion, while open carry might seem like a powerful deterrent and the gray man strategy might feel like a safe bet, neither hit the mark in terms of practical, effective self-defense. Mike’s enlightened perspective recognizes that individuals need to maintain a balance – showing enough strength to discourage potential threats while keeping the upper hand with a controlled display of force. With this in mind, remember to properly conceal your weapon and choose to intertwine it with your personal style; don’t wear a theatrical ‘gray man’ costume. Instead, be yourself, show confidence, and quietly, without anyone noticing, be ready to protect yourself if the situation requires it.Blablabla
The YouTube channel Hard2Hurt, owned by Icy Mike, is dedicated to providing practical self-defense methods. Mike, a certified self-defense instructor and former undercover law enforcement officer, infuses humor into his insightful tutorials. He demonstrates tactical tips with a focus on street-survivable techniques, all while challenging martial arts myths.
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Right why open carry when you can instead blow your junk off..😂😂
Well I’m 19 and if I want to carry a pistol it has to be open carry, so there’s also that. Maybe I just wanna show off my new gun to fellow gun guys it doesn’t have to be a violent act of display if you open carry. Now I get you’re allowing others to be aware you have a firearm and they may try to take it or whatever, but they might think twice about robbing you too.
EVERY able bodied adult should present themselves as "greyman". Probably is many armchair warriors and mall ninjas don't know what "greyman" is 😂
As soon as someone thinks "greyman" is a specific look, they have missed the point.
This is the most idiotic video I"ve seen in a while that literally exemplifies speaking in circles for no reason other than to make a sale.. This guy is exactly why I resigned from being a police officer 2 decades ago..
A firearm is nothing more than a tool like a hammer so if I go to home depot carrying a hammer am I promoting violence?
This has to be the dumbest reasoning for your claim to not open carry. Open carting has its place yes it’s a deterrent which has in fact been proven once states went open carry and the crime rates dropped drastically and it’s a great way to normalize exercising the 2A as far as conceal carrying it also has its place but who are generally the ones who are concealing their firearm before committing a crime the criminal so when you go to pull your firearm in a situation that arises you might get shot by someone else’s conceal carrying see how it works it goes both ways
I thought Grey Man referred to your age
A threat of violence is not violence. It is of course a threat. Saying don't attack me because I'm dangerous is not violence. A cop being in the area is NOT violence. A deterrent being effective is not violent.
@6:02 you actually can and we do have some numbers, it's just very difficult….and alot of the times we find out after they committed a different crime…. your mainstream news representative of this is the pulse night club shooter.. his original plan was to attack Disney, got there, realized how security was set up and started googling night clubs and went to several before pulse… the only difference between pulse and the rest was pulses off duty cop was a drug intervention cop so he had an marked car and was a block down the street dealing with underage drinkers that just came out of pulse… not a 1 to 1 to open carry/ your point , but to say we have no data on the influence of people carrying vs crime just isn't true…. your almost pushing into agreeing with gun free zones being effective territory lol…
Nice bait mate… ima judge ya for it tho lol nice haircut
Yea, open carry IS NOT VIOLENCE in any way! I dont OC unless I am hunting or fishing, but to just insulting potential viewers right off the get go isnt exactly the way to get new viewers. Your clearly one of those that believes that if others arent doing things the same way you do then they are wrong. Saying that open carry is a form of violence is ABSURD! Or do you think the GF riots were just peacefull protests while spoken words are violence? No, you have all sorts of crap screwed in backwards.
Getting tired of people assuming open carry is like a neon sign or target on your back. A dark shirt and behaving like a normal person do wonders for concealment. 90% of people are going to be clueless anyway. The fact that it CAN be a deterrent is just a bonus. There are no guarantees in life and anyone who thinks it is an automatic deterrent are foolish.
I live in a very rural area, everyone open carries. Anything from coyotes, badgers, rabies raccoons, cougars, bears, etc. Open carry is the most common in my area. I would say that what I was told by the sheriff very much applies and is a good thing to live by. If you live in the sticks, fuck it, open carry. If you live in the city, go gray man. No need to draw excess attention to yourself. Fit in with your environment, go about your business, have and live a beautiful life.
EDIT: Would also like to interject, there is a difference between aggression and violence. Open carrying is aggression, not violence. I CC, but don't mind others OC, not a hater, you do you bubby.
EDIT: I'm so stupid, didn't realize this video was a year old, it just popped up in my recommendeds, sorry for commenting on a dead video.
Open carry is our right, it does deter violence and we're not all douche bags. I have gotten so many people thanking me for expressing our rights.
Conceal carry is unconstitutional, the government profits off of it. Hey, people push their thoughts and opinions on other people using words, is that violence?
5:30 Violence is defined as “behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.” Open-carrying definitely does not constitute this. Intimidation, yes; a form of violence, no. And it is easy to know that it deters crime because almost all criminals are cowards.
"Open carry is an act of violence."
"You should carry yourself in such a way as people know you're dangerous and not to be messed with."
Yeah ok dude.
The older you get the dumber you sound. "Violence is the use of physical force to cause harm to people, animals, or property, such as pain, injury, death, damage, or destruction." (Encyclopidia Britannica) By far the most stupid crap I've ever heard you say. And no amount of trying to explain it away will work.
If you can't prove that open carry doesn't deter crime, then you also can't prove it doesn't.
wouldn't acting like a bad mofo karate man like you also be a form of violence under your definition?
That’s more like tacticool, not gray man. Gray man is just a guy who conceal carries daily but wears normal clothes.
I run across folks open carrying from time to time and have never taken it as violence. I just figure they have either work that requires it or they live out in the hills or a farm. It's fairly normal and not alarming at all. I don't while I'm out as I want the element of surprise on my side. On the farm however, it's out on my belt.
I like Doug Marcaida quote "'your weapon should be felt not seen"'
Open carrying is perfectly acceptable in places where it is common. But to carry where you know you're going to be the only one doing it… yeah, that's dumb and needlessly antagonistic. I wouldn't call it "violence" though. And if you call it "violence" then you have to call all of your MMA/jiu-jistu shirts "violence" because they are doing the same thing: projecting to others that you are a "bad motherfucker". Anything you wear that does that can be considered "violence". Hell, having big muscles or just naturally being big deters people, so I guess that's violence too. Having a determined, stern demeanor? That deters people from messing with you, ergo "violence". Still wanna play these labeling games? No? K. Here's what it actually is: tt's like shoving your business into other people's faces and making anti-gun people nervous. That's it. It's the 2A version of wearing an MMA shirt, or a Grunt Style shirt, or showing off your muscles.
And you're not really portraying "gray man" because if someone is noticeable, they aren't a "gray man". Carrying off body in a fanny pack or something is not indicative of a "gray man" or any other type of person. It's just a convenient way to carry, especially if you have a smaller, thinner body frame and trying to conceal carry is both uncomfortable and likely to print badly. I carry off body all the time because of that, but also because having a fanny pack is convenient and on-brand for me (a dad with 2 kids and a dog). It is also comfortable enough that I don't mind doing it all the time and transitioning from standing to sitting is easy, and it remains equally as accessible in either case. I also have a small trauma kit rigged to my fanny pack. And I can carry a mini-light, a mini-multitool, and a knife. And of course I can put my phone and wallet and keys and whatnot in there. So there's really nothing douchey about it. It's completely practical.
Thanks homie🙏 Love ya.
Now, what about someone like me who wants to conceal carry but can’t do the classes because they are always being scheduled on the Jewish Sabbath? Open carry is the only option I got and I don’t appreciate your insinuation that I’m doing it as a form of violence or intimidation. I do it because it’s the only choice I have.
@Icy Mike 1,000,000%, my man! I got more quotes out of this 13 minute piece than out of “The Princess Bride”
I’ve seen plenty times when open carry got snatched n now u can’t do nun. Definitely will never open carry
“It’s morally questionable because the reasons that they’re doing it are typically to control and manipulate people. Open carry is a form of (psychological?) violence” By default? Because people aren’t used to it?
Well dang…take this gently, but catch a mirror before going out in public with a shirt that suggests you know martial arts. Might scare those same people. You’ll recall your own words scrutinizing the gray man concept with? “maybe that seems like a good thing because you don’t…want them to know that you know how to fight”.
It’s pretty rare I disagree with anything you say/do btw, but that’s kinda hypocritical. “I know what the arguments (with my criticism) will be” this is also manipulative speech typically used to justify an emotional position rather than a logical one.
Peace & Love though. Not a hater, just trying to help 🙂
"Open carrying in public is a form of violence." You're so full of crap you shouldn't be putting out any videos whatsoever. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you're emotionally triggered by the sight of someone open carrying. Your feelings are immaterial.
The abject stupidity of that comment is, in and of itself, sufficient to ensure that I certainly will not continue watching any of the crap you produce.
And, no, I don't open carry.
Yo what boots was Mike wearing here tho? 👀
I find your entire premise flawed on a fundamental level.
First, your assertion that open carry is violent behavior is absolutely ludicrous. It is an exercise of a natural born right protected by the constitution.
If it is in fact violence and inherently violent behavior, then law enforcement is violent use of government force, and therefore tyranny.
Tyranny, which happens to be the number one reason why the second amendment exists.
Secondly, your depiction of a grey man, is absolutely insane.
The idea and purpose of grey man is to effectively blend into the general population in your area without drawing attention of others and to be unremarkable in all ways.
The primary benefit of open carry is that the exercise of your right to carry becomes less and less conspicuous the more people do it. If one person in a town open carries, he's the crazy gun nut that open carries. If 10,000 people carry openly, it becomes normalized. Just like exercising your right to speak your opinion. No matter how absurd you sound when doing so. Your right to freely express your views and opinions is a protected right.
Why should it be any different with the second amendment?
I understand that if a situation arises, and you are the only person open carrying, a criminal is going to Target you number one. But if 50+ people are open carrying, does the bad guy have enough bullets to take everyone out before being got himself?
Tactically speaking, it is wise not to put all your cards on the table and advertise your capability to engage in, and end a violent situation as you will likely become the target of violence first. Eliminate the biggest threat first. So having a hidden ace up your sleeve is not a bad option.
But how does the second amendment community show the public at large that we are not the problem, nor is it our tools or the exercise of our rights that is the problem?
How do we increase acceptance for the second amendment without actively engaging in our rights openly?
If we are so ashamed of our rights that we must hide it from everyone we know, how will we expect our rights to continue to survive the onslaught of the very vocal anti second amendment activists?
We have to bring it out into the light of day. Be seen as the stand-up guy that will help out the neighbors and hold the door for others. To be seen as the good guys with guns, not hiding out in our closets.
Look what coming out of the closet has done for the gay, lesbian, and bi community?
They have gained acceptance and power even. All because they refused to hide who they were, and fought for their ability to live their lives as they wanted.
The tacticool grey man is obviously just playing dress up for Halloween all year long, concealed carriers don't want to be the nail that sticks up for fear of being hammered, and open carry, done for many reasons is the only one that can positively change the outlook of the public and our public officials by being seen doing good works while carrying and exercising their rights in the light of day, not hiding what they are. Perhaps open carry is the squeaky wheel, that if heard long enough, seen long enough, can open minds and create positive discussions surrounding the second amendment and show that there is no reason to fear those that support the second amendment.
If you open carry, and the perpetrator has already commited to do ilk, then wouldn't you be their first target?
Is that a retention holster?
I have never seen a guy so wrong about every way to carry a firearm. Lol
Violence is literally physical force used to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy.. Open carry is not violence, any more than harsh language is. It might be provocative or intended to influence the behavior of others, but violence isn’t the word you are looking for.
Ok, stupid question. How does the pistol not drag down the gym shorts?
I don't consider law enforcement presence violence. I change my behavior slightly such as not speeding in their presence but that is just being prudent. Maybe if we normalized open carrying, crime would go down. People open carrying holstered pistols is of no concern, but its an issue if someone is has a slinged riffle with a hand on the grip.
Finally someone who calls out the bs.
On point and hilarious video. Thanks!
Why are we dictating how someone carries their gun? Who the fuck cares. Just carry however is comfortable for you.
I know it's an old video but maybe someone can help me out on this train of thought that is presented.
I'm generally an intimidating dude. I'm pretty effing tall, not a string-bean in build by any means, and I just have one of those postures naturally that Mike is probably talking about that is at least considered by some as off-putting. So does that mean when someone says I intimidate them when all I've said and done is smile and say hello to the clerk at the register, I've unintentionally committed a violent act against or otherwise assaulted someone? I can't really understand this train of thought because if intimidation is violence, then you could easily say that to intimidate is also to assault. Is the difference the fact that a gun is involved somewhere? Or that someone is doing something that they are aware of that makes people uncomfortable? Would that mean if I'm not paying attention to the fact that I'm walking tall and confident it's not violence/assault but if I notice that I am walking tall and confident than is it suddenly violence/assault? I feel like this train of thought will put me in jail for walking into a room at some point because after hurt feelings from words puts you into prosecution, it will be how you looked at someone made them feel upset, and then just how you look as a person in general. I know the last remark is off topic but I think anyone can rationalize why I'm hung up here with that tidbit added.
I honestly can't wrap my head around this concept of intimidation and I really do want to do so. Thanks.
given my physical size and race, i could never blend in to any environment 😔
Open carrying a pistol is violence? Lol while im not a fan of open carry, you lost me with that one…. my stance on open carry is this: I dont think open carry is wise for a lot of reasons, but…. i believe everyone should be free to make that choice.
influencing other people to not mess with you with a firearm is not violence, violence is hurting people with said firearm.
Don't get me wrong here. I wear my school's shirt too. And yes it says self-defense on it (somewhere) But isn't wearing a shirt that says you can do fight, or at least train to, the same as open carry. ("In the fact that it would be considered a form of violence").
Fan of HTHI disagree with the "open carry is violence" argument. Your logic is only one step above "silence is violence."
If "influencing other people's thoughts" was violence then all advertising and any form of persuasion would also be violence.
Your police force escalation argument is similarly flawed. If the police show up and only use non-physical de-escalation tactics to get a handle on a situation are they violently de-escalating? That's just silliness. You're trying to extend wording in department guidelines to everyday situations and it doesn't really work.
Only violence is violence. Someone who has been punched as many time as you have should know that.
You may think I'm playing a semantic game here but I'm not. Too many people these days want to change what violence means to fit their agenda. But violence is a form of physical force. Always has been and always will be.
I leave you with a quote from Robert Heinlein from the book Starship Troopers: "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst."
I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about some goober just standing around with a gun on his hip.
Agree with the point that open carry makes no sense for self defense though. Love the content even when I disagree. Stay frosty
Perceived violence is not violence.
Thinking about violence is not carrying out violence. If that was true, thinking about punching someone is assault. Actually looking like you can fight is violence. Being big and scary is violence.
None of that makes sense, much like open carry.
"Openly carrying a gun is violence, and there's no way to know if open carrying reduces crime." Is that a tacit admission that police are inherently violent, and don't actually reduce crime rates?