I like the neither option….

Thought provoking stuff. I've got better tools than the Dollar Store. Suit up and let's fix us a satellite dammit.

As a teacher, I’ve rarely seen someone cover all points/counter points so effectively and comprehensively. We’ll done Mike!

You forgot about age.
Im 64 , 145 lbs – if someone attacks me its a or b, 12 or 6. Ive had it once when I was 58 and got attacked at night – they(!) quickly worked out I was going for 12 ! I was lucky though.

I am a lawyer in England. I practise civil law, but I had to learn about criminal law as part of my training, and I want to share a story regarding this issue.

During my training, I had to attend a sentencing hearing. The story went as follows: the Defendant (“D”) had been walking down the street in London with his girlfriend, minding his own business, whereupon a local gang member (“C” for “complainant”) punched D in the face for walking in his “turf.” D did not defend himself there and then, but instead went home, got some acid, came back and threw the the avid in C’s face.

Now… admittedly, this was not self-defence per se. Rather, it was a revenge attack. But stay tuned.

The Judge imposed a suspended prison sentence on D, then D left the dock and my fellow students and I were able to ask the Judge questions.

I asked the Judge whether C had also been charged. After all, he had also committed a crime, and an unprovoked one at that. The judge laughed, said he “had to expect that people would start fights with him in this day and age” (which to me is like saying “she was asking for it by wearing that short skirt”) and said police typically arrested the winner of the fight because it wouldn’t be in the public interest for CPS (translation: DA’s office) to press charges against the loser. He asked the court clerk, who was a former copper, whether he agreed, and he did.

I was astounded, but my fellow students, both of whom planned on practising criminal, took this in their stride. “I understand why D got prosecuted,” I said, “you can’t have vigilante justice etc. But the idea that the guy who punched him in the face in front of his girlfriend for no reason other than walking in what he deemed to be “his” turf is just barmy to me.” Let’s just say… they told me to stick to civil law.

As stated above, I appreciate that this was not self defence per se. But, based on the comments made by the judge and ex-police court clerk, it seemed that they were ok with the idea that the guy who wins the fight is the one who gets arrested and then prosecuted, which still applies here. Even if he successfully argues self-defence in the end and thus gets acquitted, he was still arrested, charged and possibly held on remand, all the while terrified about what might happen to him (and possibly his family); meanwhile, his attacker faced no consequences at all.

Marc macyoung made a good point: people will claim “self defense” when it was actually “escalating a situation into violence”

Not everyone lives in the US of A. Some people in fact dont. 😉

Cringe !!!!! Ok nvm 😂 mikes videos are always so fun you need more exposure bro!

Maybe laws that are supposed to be followed by everybody shouldn't be written in ways that are hard for the average person to interpret without a lawyer or one or more experts…

Boys just want to kill people; men realize how important life is and try to wait until the very last second to take a life.

For those in WA, sign up for US Law Shield instead, as USCCA and NRA Carry Guard are not allowed in the state. The state views these latter two as 'murder insurance'

UK, actually, it is Necessary and Reasonable this is a principle of law.

I'd rather by raped by 12 then raped by 6.

Your experience of self defense in the US does not apply in the UK. We basically no longer have a right to self defense. If there's someone literally thrusting a knife into your stomach you still can't punch them.

When I was growing up the boys I went to school with would hunt before coming to school that morning. A lot of those boys had gun racks in the back glass of their truck. None of us had ever heard of a school shooting and weren’t afraid of all the guns around, knives, etc. Fast forward to all of us growing up having kids of pwn and grandkids….. It seems like every time you turn around there’s a news headline about some asshole coming inside some public place and shooting multiple individuals. When I was growing up there were very few gun laws. My kids and grandkids era, there’s way more laws! If they came to school with a rifle in the back glass of their truck, all hell would break loose! I think a whole lot more people need to take on the attitude of I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6! All these new laws have fucked everything up to the point that good people are afraid to conceal carry or open carry anymore! We need more good people with guns and less bad people with guns! If the good people start eliminating the bad ones, maybe all these damn criminals will think twice before attempting to shoot innocent people! When an active shooter comes out there’s no time to wait for authorities and all these so called gun professionals to arrive! Get a gun, and learn and know how to use it! At least then you have a chance to not be the one carried out in a body bag! All these innocent people loosing their lives is fucked up! If people like me are idiots for believing this way so be it! We don’t want to kill anybody, we don’t want to be be judged by twelve or carried by 6! But by God we don’t want to be killed or watch our family and friends get killed by psychotic assholes either! .

Getting judged by twelve drastically increases your chances of being carried by six, lol

Joke's on you, Mike. I'm totally forming my opinion based on what you're saying.